Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: As the world changes, so does leadership.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Hello, I'm Carlos Martin, host of Leadership Evolving and NOW Media Television.
On Leadership Evolving, we bring you real talk about mindset, resilience, culture, influence and purpose.
Every episode features thought leaders, innovators and
[00:00:22] Speaker A: everyday visionaries sharing insights, experience and strategies you can use.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Let's explore how your voice can help others evolve, evolve their leadership.
Watch Leadership Evolving on NOW Media Television and step into the leader you are becoming.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: And today we explore what it takes to lead with purpose and impact.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Leadership today evolving tomorrow.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Hello, folks. Welcome to Leadership Evolving. I'm super excited about my guest today. He is harsh.
Hopefully I got that correct. A certified public accountants in taxation, I guess the CFE and taxation. Chief audit executive, business educator, partner at my Profit Gurus, Sarah. His background includes work as a former IRS auditor. Okay, be careful, folks. He's coming after you. Experience with organizations such as Deloitte, Ernest Young, Intel, American Express and Teaching Tax and accountant, UC Berkeley at Mellow College.
Welcome to Leadership Evolving.
Thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:36] Speaker C: Thank you, Carlos. I'm really happy to be here.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: All right. There was a lot of stuff going on in that intro. A lot of great things.
Before we go into the jugular, into the, you know, your business and how that correlates back into leadership, tell us a little bit more about you. Whatever you feel comfortable within the personal works or audience could get a little bit of who you are.
[00:02:03] Speaker C: Well, I'll thank you, Carlos. Thank you for that nice, warm introduction. And I can say that, you know, I've been. Been around the block. You know, I think I've done a lot of different things. So I think that sort of like, helps me, in a sense, understand, you know, the perspective of business owners and other professionals, because I've probably been doing the same thing and sat in their place for a very long time.
So my background is primarily in the financial arena. So I've worked with, like you mentioned, companies like intel and American Express. I also worked in public accounting with Deloitte and Ernst and Young. I also worked in government with a company with a government organization called Acera. And I also started my career working with the irs. So I've been around a block with many, many different organizations. Now I am a partner and a CEO of my Profit Gurus, where we actually help small business owners grow. We come up with profit growth plans as well as help them with some advanced tax strategies. So that combination, you know, is really what we do now. We don't do any taxes. Even though I'm a CPA we don't, I mean, we don't do any tax preparation, we do a lot of tax planning, and we don't do any bookkeeping. So we're very, very, very on the front end about growth and profit.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Okay, well, thank you for that.
You know what I, as I hear this is obviously leadership evolving. I want to be able to make the connection of your world within the leadership. And the first thing that I think that comes up is your world is a lot more analytical, very black and white and not a lot of room for the gray area.
And what comes up for me is like, is there any room for, for leadership? And obviously I, I, I think the answer is yes. Correct.
But tell me a little bit more of how your world, your ecosystem, right. In the financial aspect, you could say, how does that aligned into leadership and how does that show up, kind of give us the, the, the macro sense here.
[00:04:08] Speaker C: So, you know, you brought up a really good point. So I think, you know, leadership is leadership at the end of the day, depending on whether it's financial or other. I think what's different about financial leadership though, is like you said, it is a little bit more analytically driven. You know, you need to be a different type of leader. You know, I think like oftentimes like a servant leader, you know, where you're actually empowering yourself with really strong employees around you or, you know, other leaders around you. I think that goes a long way because finance is a big, big area to be an expert in. And you really need a lot of help. And it's that collaboration with your partners and, you know, both internal and external to your organization, that communication and that ability to lead, that ability to get really strong results. I think that sort of separates the financial end of it a little bit more than maybe another traditional leader. But I think like we will talk about probably leadership is the characteristics are pretty common for very, very good leaders.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: Okay, you, thank you for that. You mentioned, you know, strong employees. You know, as I think about the new leadership now is I like to see it in, through my leadership lens, through my lens of an executive coach and working with many leaders.
I see how you could say a leader can be effective leader, not just the leader, because I believe that anybody could be a leader. Right. But how can you be a good, effective leader? What are you seeing as, as a leader yourself? And I guess where I'm going is I see empathy being a lot more important.
I see seeing our team and our stakeholders being a lot more important.
How does that show off for you? You as you as a leader, you again in that, that world that you live in.
[00:06:02] Speaker C: That's a really great question because I think today's workforce is pretty diverse. You have lots of folks from different genders as well as different age groups, different diversity. I think when you take into account all of those different aspects, I think you really do need to be that empathetic, compassionate leader, probably in a sense giving good guidance, but letting people run, you know, I don't think like the days of being the micromanager are gone. I don't see that being a very successful style by any means. I think you really, like you said, have to be empathetic and be sincerely interested in your employees growth. I mean, I think the biggest success factor for me as a leader is being able to grow an employee and let them even leave the organization for a better opportunity based on the skill sets I've been able to provide them. Because I think it's like karma, it comes back around and eventually these folks, they do good work out there in the world as well as, you know, they may even come back as even a stronger leader. So I think that's sort of our responsibility.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: I thank you. I love that you mentioned, you know, diverse and I think about diverse diversity within the communication of our folks.
And in my world I talk a lot about different types of communications. Right. One could be a little bit more assertive if you're using kind of like the, the disc or if you're using kind of like other assessments. Right. A fiery red or a sunshine yellow. How important is it for you to get to know not only the people that you're leading, but also possible clients, if you will, to see how they communicate and you know, going back to the word diverse when it comes again overall in communication.
[00:07:57] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a great point because I don't definitely don't think it's a situation where it's one size fits all. You have to be adaptable with your clients as with your, with your employees, with your leaders. You know, you have to be able to be very adaptive to the way they are. And I love what you said about, you know, like sort of an assessment, like a disc assessment, you know, in terms of getting to understand like the basic style somebody operates under, you know, when they're analytical or expressive, you know, whatever it is. I think by having those type of assessments you're better able to communicate, you know, in terms of their language, how they really, you know, take in data, how they actually process. I think it's important.
I don't Know enough. And I would love to hear more from, from you actually on, you know, how what your experience has been with disc and other types of assessment tools.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Yeah, no, thank you for that.
You know, my thing is I don't, I don't have a formula per se. I think I did have a formula at the beginning of my career within coaching and leadership and I think I was wrong because as individuals, as human beings, we're complex, we're very unique in our own way.
And I'm not saying the way that we look in diversity, right. I'm talking about our experiences, I'm talking about how we lead.
So going back to the communication style, I think like you said, is how do you not micromanage? How do you seek to understand and really get to know the people and how they, and how they are really and not have a formula or if there is a formula, the formula will be curiosity, seek to understand, get to know others, get to know thyself. That would be more of a macro way of looking at it. But sometimes when I, when I throw that answer out, people think it's kind of general and it is general and broad.
But the thing is we're really quick at pointing fingers. We're really quick at pointing, putting people in a box though. Putting people in a box or label them, I think that's effective, but in a very temporary sense, you know, because you, you know, you're probably very different now than you were as a first time manager, right. And, or when you were in your 20s, you know, but if, imagine if we, if we were to put you in a box 20 years ago and, and stayed in that box from 20 years ago.
I don't think how, you know that that that's effective nor is that that fair. What are your thoughts?
[00:10:40] Speaker C: I think that's a, that's a really great point because, you know, we do evolve, you know, hopefully evolve for the better. We become better managers, better people, better leaders. And I think, you know, you're right, the style does change and how you work with that person does change as well. So I think that's another responsibility of a good manager is, you know, watching your employees grow and be able to support them at whatever level they're at.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I, So we have about, we have about one minute here in this, in this segment.
You know, again, when I think about someone that's numbers and very analytical, I don't think empathy, I know that's inaccurate, but that is the. Because I know I work with financial people, I work with CFOs right. So I know that's an accurate statement.
Tell me a little bit about the blurry lines where someone is very numbers driven and there's no time to talk emotions.
I know I kind of gave you a loaded question, but you got about 30 seconds and we could kind of go in a little dig a little bit more in the next session.
[00:11:49] Speaker C: I will tell you, Carlos, that is probably my Achilles heel. It's not unnatural for my employees to call me Mr. Spock because I do tend to be very logical and I need to. I need to work on my compassion, my empathy more like, you're so right about, you know, like, having sort of a financial background. Everything is really numbers driven, metrics driven. So you measure people, you measure performance based on that. But we both know that it's a lot more than that. People bring value in so many different ways other than just numbers. So I'm looking forward to talking more about that.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: Yeah, Fantastic. Thank you, Harsh. I appreciate it. And I think you're on, you know, thank you for your honesty.
[00:12:32] Speaker C: Say.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Yeah, you're.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: You're kind of right. You're on. You're on track. So anyway, we'll be right back with Harsh right after these messages. Thank you for, for staying in.
We'll be right back with more insights,
[00:12:45] Speaker B: stories, and transformative leadership conversations. Stay with us.
Leadership Today Evolving Tomorrow.
I'm Carlos Martin, and this is Leadership Evolving on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the journey.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: And we are back.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Leadership Today evolving tomorrow.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: All right, folks, welcome back to Leadership Evolving Again. I'm your host, Carlos Martin, and today we are. We're going to continue with Harsh. Harsh. Let's. Let's go. Go dive a little bit deeper into your world. Obviously aligning into somewhat as we can into leadership.
So I have a question here that we put together.
So why do so many leaders wait for pressure crises or tax season? I know I'm a corporate before becoming honest about the financial health of the business.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: What a great question, actually. And my opinion is I don't think most leaders are avoiding the numbers because they're irresponsible. I think they're avoiding them because they're rewarded for solving today's problems, not tomorrow's. So I think about the average business owner's day, right? So they have a customer issue and employee calls in sick, vendor misses the deadline. There's like a proposal needs to go out.
Every one of those things probably demands some immediate attention. But looking at financial reports doesn't feel urgent, so it doesn't get pushed to the, it gets pushed to the bottom of the list, basically. But here's what's really fascinating about that is every crisis I've seen in the business started out actually as a trend. So I've worked at the, the irs, you know, in the big four as a chief audit executive now and now with, as an advisor for small business owners.
And across all those roles, I've noticed the same pattern. Companies almost never wake up one morning and suddenly have a cash flow problem. They ignore like, you know, a slow decline in gross margins. They overlook receivables.
You know, they may even convince themselves that one more big sale will solve everything.
What I found most successful leaders do though, is they have a really different relationship with the numbers. They don't see them as a report card. They see them sort of as an early warning system. It's a lot like going to the doctor for an annual checkup. Most of us don't go because we feel sick. We go there because we want to catch those small issues before they become a major one. So I really am a strong believer in systems and having financial reviews and owners taking very strong responsibility in terms of the finances to become better, better leaders.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: I like that. So you mentioned crises, you know, in, in, in more patterns and seeing the early warning systems as, as you put it.
I work with corporate quite a bit and they all have, you know, they all have structure. You could, you know, if you will, KPIs and so forth.
Can it be a lack of awareness within that leader to be able to say, we have all the structure, we have the numbers and we can see patterns, as you put it?
[00:16:06] Speaker C: Right.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: We could see trends, if you will. But can it be up to an individual that doesn't matter how much structure you give them, how much numbers and the data for them to look at patterns. But can there be a lack of awareness because you said, you know, they, they, they're working on today's problems opposed to tomorrow's.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: I think it's, it's another good question because I think, you know, a lot of it has to do with someone's experience as a leader. Right? I mean, if you have a leader that's relatively new, they tend to focus on what's happening now versus having that experience to really understand, well, this problem today is going to really magnify and become a much bigger problem, bigger problem tomorrow. So I need to start focusing it on a different way. I think, you know, the other thing too is I see a lot of younger leaders, or I shouldn't say younger, but leaders with less experience.
One of the things that they have a lot of trouble doing is actually handing off some of those projects to others. Right. They tend to want to take control of everything versus, you know, really being able to hand off to somebody else who can take maybe that burden off. Maybe the, the, the project is important and it'll allow somebody else to grow, but they still feel like they need to have ownership in terms of the quality control. And that happens a lot with financial people because we are so exacting in the numbers that we need to process.
So we just don't want to take a risk with somebody else, you know, especially with a major deliverable. So I think that comes into my focus quite a bit.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: That's a, that's a fantastic point. You, you know, you mentioned, you know, almost like delegating, right. And giving up control.
I, if I go back several years as a first time manager, I, I do remember that. And that comes with, you know, lack of experience or just being young or you know, first time, first time leader.
What would, what would you say to that, to that individual, to that leader that has, you know, that is new to be able to say, let go of delegating. You know, maybe you start to let go of control.
What would you be your worst for that person that might be in that seat currently?
[00:18:30] Speaker C: You know, Carlos, I am a big fan of coaching and what you're doing to help actually help leaders grow.
I think that is critical because many of us, people like me, we have leaders, we are pretty proficient in our world in terms of finance, things like that. We've learned a little bit about leadership, how to grow employees. But if you really want to do it right for your employees, to really help them get to the next level, I always bring in experts like you to come in and actually train the workforce to do better, to really understand it. Because you have a very different perspective because you see many leaders, right? So the, my employee is going to benefit from, you know, really getting that experience because maybe my style doesn't really match up with their style. What I'm asking them to do, is it really going to work for their type of personality. But with people like you who are smart, have been doing this or experience talk to lots of leaders, you bring a whole new world to them in terms of experience. So like I said, I'm a really big fan of coaching and maybe, you know, you might want to, you can say a few words about, you know, maybe some of the word, some of the things you do for your clients.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you. For the kind words, first of all, harsh. I really, I really appreciate it and I, I think you're spot on. Not, not because you're. You're talking about me as an expert in the coaching, but I think it just overall investing in our people, investing in personal development. You mentioned something really important is that, you know, your perspective might not. I can't remember exactly the words you use, but our perspective is not everything, right? It's just part of the equation. How do you bring somebody else's perspective and sometime an outsider, an expert within the field, maybe like you said, coaching, like, we bring a different perspective because we talk to a lot of leaders. That is what we do. You bring a different perspective because you talk numbers. That is the world that you live in, right? So you are an expert within your field.
Right? So I think bringing other experts within our field that sometimes are, I want to say polar opposite, but getting a different perspective.
You mentioned also the coaching.
My why. My personal why is to be the coach that I didn't have, because now I see how important coaching is.
Because when I had, when I found the coaching world, when I had my coach, like, wow, I remember telling him, like, well, this is, this is, this is better than therapy. And he said, well, hold on, we're not therapists. And I said, but it feels very therapeutic. And like, yeah, feeling therapeutic is very different, you know, but giving, you know, bringing a different perspective, a different style like you mentioned and investing in our folks is, Is extremely important. So I, I love that and thank you for that.
So I want to go, I want to go back before I forget. I asked you on the first segment in regards to, you know, a lot of, you know, maybe CFOs that I talked to and you know, analytical people, you know, many times, not all the time, but many times are not necessarily comfortable talking about emotions, talking about feelings. And you mentioned, like, oh, that could be me.
Tell us a little bit more about that. Is that something that. Obviously it sounds that you're aware of it. So now that you are aware of it, what are you working on that. How does that show up in. In, in. In your leadership?
[00:22:04] Speaker C: You know, Carlos, for me, you know that that's actually a very good question from a different perspective because at least in my case, I find it's very difficult to measure. You know, am I really progressing in the right direction? You know, I'm getting more experience.
I feel like I'm getting. Doing a good job and my, you know, you have like tools, like, you know, 360 degree feedback and things like that that can help you, you know, do better. But I don't always know how honest people are when they're doing those type of assessments because at one point maybe they want to give you good feedback. On the other point they're afraid maybe that too much feedback might actually jeopardize their job.
So I think that, you know, there is, there is. I think the measurement piece of it is difficult for me and I would love to get your perspective on something else because, you know, I, to me, like when I work with my business owner clients, my small business owners, they don't necessarily have mentors or other people, leadership that they can look to, unlike maybe a corporate where you have, you know, different levels. I'm just curious, you know, like when you're mentoring or when you're coaching folks who are at the small business level, is there anything different you need to do in order to really get them to the next level?
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
Great. Thank you. And I love the way you're throwing this back, back at me. I love this conversation.
I want to go back a little bit, you know, into measuring or quantifying or like you, like you, like you said, in its measure, I believe you said.
And that's a very difficult thing, right. Like how do you measure love? It's kind of the same thing, right. I know I love someone, but how do you quantify that? So, you know, there's a little bit.
So I would, I want to say challenge you, but you know, challenge individuals to say, how do you quantify that? So it's more. A lot of times it could be a feeling as well.
But if, you know, if we're going to stay in the world of, let's say corporate a little bit more.
There's different things that I do. We use a scale system, right.
From zero to five. Where are you with X, Y and Z? Right. We do it previously to meeting with my client or Right. Like yourself. And then after the engagement we'll use that same scale and that's something that we can measure. Right. The other thing would be surveys. We do a, A, a certain amount of questions within a survey.
Pre working with, you know what the, with the team working with the client, the same, the same survey after. And we start to see the delta right there. And that's something that we can measure. And of course you measure. You talk about 360s. I do a lot of 360s. I do an LCP 360. That's a little bit at a higher level. You, you will because there's different types of 360s and that allows more of.
Because those comments that you mention, a lot of times people don't want to tell the leader exactly how they feel.
But the 360 that I do comes in. You don't know those comments, where they came from.
Right. So people feel a little bit more at ease to. To telling Harsh. You know, you could be a little bit of xyz like, okay, so there's a lot of things I. But I agree with you. I don't think there is that one thing. It's. It's not as easy with the numbers, right, to look at patterns. It's not that black or white. There's a little bit more of openness. But I think from the coach's perspective, asking better questions and be able to quantify as much as. As we can. And also for corporate to be as open as possible and not so analytical, because I. I think there's a little bit of gray area that. That.
That corporate needs to. Or, you know, it would be good for them to, you know, be a little bit more open. But also from a coach. Coach's perspective and from my sales background, I know I need to give them something more than. Yeah. Trust me.
So, anyway, well, thank you so much. We'll be right back.
[00:26:15] Speaker C: And stick.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: And thank you, everyone, for sticking with us. And we'll continue on to our next segment. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more insights,
[00:26:23] Speaker B: stories, and transformative leadership conversations.
Stay with us. Leadership Today Evolving Tomorrow.
I'm Carlos Martin, and this is Leadership Evolving on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the journey.
[00:26:37] Speaker A: And we are back.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: Leadership Today Evolving tomorrow.
[00:26:43] Speaker A: All right, folks, back to Leadership Evolving. Thank you so much for sticking around, and I am enjoying this tennis match of a conversation with my friend Harsh.
So let's dig in deeper a little bit more, and I'm going to bring it back into your business.
The question to you, Harsh, is how can leaders examine their own habits, assumptions, and decision patterns at the same discipline that they will apply on their financial audit?
[00:27:13] Speaker C: Okay, well, I think every audit begins with questioning assumptions, and I think leaders should do the same thing. You know, one client was convinced that his marketing had stopped working because lead volumes had dropped.
He was ready to replace the agency. He spent thousands of dollars on a new campaign.
And before making that decision, we decided to sort of audit that process.
And we realized that the marketing wasn't the problem.
The sales team had gone from calling leads within one hour to calling them three or four days later and the leads hadn't gotten worse. It's just that the follow up had.
So he was solving the wrong problem because he never challenged the original assumption.
I think that's why I encourage leaders to periodically audit their own thinking. Ask yourself, what do I believe to be true and what evidence actually supports it? I think sometimes the biggest breakthrough doesn't come from changing your strategy. It comes from really questioning your assumptions.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: I love where you're going with this because my brain is just like, boo, boo, boo. Like, okay, I'm making tons of connections. So when you say audit, I think discovery.
[00:28:30] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: Right. Because sometimes we're really good at just go, go, go. Okay, we have a formula. We have a plan of attack.
That's what we have. Right. As we already talked about it at the beginning of, of the year. Right. And then just roll with it. And sometimes it can be effective, but there's times like, whoa, the, the theory, you know, if we go back to, back to school, you know, we had the theory, we had the lab.
I remember, you know, talking about how we're going to dissect a frog and dissecting the frog look very, very different. Right? So that's how I see. Sometimes we're like, okay, we have the theory. But then when they're in the lab, a lot of times, oh, it's not as, as, as, as good or as effective as we thought. And now how do we go into audit mode? How do we go into discovery mode? And how do we challenge. You use the word challenge, which I love. And how do you question even. And that's what I see. How do you question yourself? How do you question your own self within, within the business and see if we're still effective? Now I want to use the same terminology for the, the coaching and the individual say, how do we question ourselves?
How do we question our, our, our personal narrative? How do we question the way that we lead? How do we question the way that we speak to others?
How do we question to say, am I really empathetic? What, as I, as I put that into leadership. What comes up for you, Harry?
[00:30:01] Speaker C: I have like, once again, I am going to bring up measurement one more time, which you just alluded to. That is the hardest part for me, you know, Carlos, is I look at that and I try to put it in some sort of framework because I'm analytical. So I want to have some sort of framework to apply to it. So I can see that, yes, I am progressing along a certain pathway. What I find though is you may be limited by using one approach. You know, some people are complex. You know, systems are complex. So you need to be very adaptable. You need to be very aware of, you know, how, you know, people are thinking and what's going on. Because what happened yesterday might have changed the fact, circumstances or what's happening today. So you have to be very, very adaptable and nimble and how you react and how you take decisions.
So I. I have a lot of struggle with that, Carlos, honestly, because I don't feel like, you know, I'm most adept at it. I'm still learning, still trying to evolve. But, you know, I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on that.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah, no, great. Thank you. I. I appreciate that you. You mentioned the word adaptable and nimble, and you mentioned bringing it back to, you know, that framework, and I agree with you. I think there is a little bit of someone that's very structured and analytical, and I can be analytical, but I think I like to.
What I tell a lot of my clients and myself is how can we code switch from the analytical mind to the emotional mind to be able to have alignment?
Because if we live here, I think that's very effective.
But when I think more, when I start going into the C suite, I see this a lot more.
And also when I think about effective leaders, I see this a little more. A little bit more what people code switch between the analytical mind and the emotional mind. Analytical. We got to get stuff done. We got to look at the numbers. We have to measure everything.
And this is more the empathy, the openness to say, how can we look at something different, you know, and say, how do we invest in our people without your typical roi? Because it's very difficult to. To. To measure. So I guess my question to you is, where do you see difficulty or the.
[00:32:26] Speaker C: When you.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: When you talk about measurement, what specific. Specifically, you're talking about yourself, you're talking about your team. And regardless, measuring what if you're open to something more specific in regards to measuring.
[00:32:39] Speaker C: Yes. And I think, you know, like, speaking from the side of being very, very analytical, working my way to becoming a little bit more emotional, I can tell you, like, when it comes to motivating employees. Right.
I rarely motivate employees based on performance results. You know, saying you got to meet the certain statistic or certain, you know, goal of some sort. That's like one piece of it.
What really resonates with them is when I have that emotional connection. I'll just tell you a very simple example.
I had an employee who was you know, struggling with one of his family members in ill health.
And, you know, typically our work is all about the business.
We don't have a lot of time to talk about personal stories and life and things like that.
But, you know, I took a different tactic on it. You know, I was genuinely concerned, so I wanted to be authentic about it. But what I found is that I connected with him, that I really wanted to know how his family was doing, how we could support him outside of the work, work world. And it was amazing how much he appreciated that. And he's like me, he's a very analytical person. We're accountants at the end of the day.
But that emotional connection was what really bridged our relationship into causing it to be creating something much, much, much more stronger. You know, we were able to collaborate more and it built like a certain level of trust, you know, because now he knew that I'm not just there. He's not a number, he's an actual person. And I care about, you know, what he's going through, not just at work, but also, you know, personally. So I think that was a mind shift for me.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: So what you're saying that there's, there's hope for accountants?
[00:34:31] Speaker C: A little. Little.
[00:34:32] Speaker A: Just a little, yeah. Oh, man, this, this is great. Because you're talking about so many things that are aligned to, to me and, and, and not only in leadership, but as me, as, as who I am. You talk about motivating employees, and there's different ways of also motivating employees. And, and you talked about having that emotional conversation even when someone that's a lot more analytical, kind of like yourself.
But think about the power in that, that even someone that feels probably more comfortable, Right, because you're probably center of gravity is more of the analytical. Doesn't mean you're, you know, cold and heartless. Right. But it may be not as natural. But look at what you did, is that you showed this individual, someone that's like yourself, to talk emotions, things that sometimes are either a frowned upon or not as a. As accepting in the corporate world.
And that's something that he really appreciated. Think about that power in that to you as a leader, even if yourself doesn't feel that comfortable that you did it. Look about that connection and emotion that you did. So that's why a lot of people think like, whoa, I can't really make a difference. And you obviously did.
[00:35:53] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. And it's interesting because I also teach.
So, like, you know, when I work with my students, you Know, that is something that we talk about even in an accounting class is, you know, as you're, you know, building your career, as you're, you know, developing your employees, you know, that emotional connection is almost mandatory. It's not optional, it's mandatory in order for you to really grow into a really successful executive.
And it is something to bring back into the classroom.
[00:36:23] Speaker A: Yeah, you mentioned he.
Well, the way that I, let me go back, the way that I see it is you're leading by example. We always hear like, oh, lead by example.
Not only. So what does that look like? Lead by example. What exactly would, what you did?
Right? It's like, and, and sometimes it's a little, you know, when I work with individuals and they're working with their stakeholders and I'm, you know, I'm coaching him or her and let's talk about emotions, let's talk about empathy and they start showing up a little different. It's when the, when I'm working with my client and he starts, he or she starts to apply that we come back to the next session and say, and he or she tells me, he's like, you know, it was a little weird because my team was like, what's going on here? You, you're not, you're not the, the emotion type. And now you're talking about, now you're curious about us. So it takes a little bit of time also for the team to be receptive, you know, but eventually once they, they see that that person is, it's coming from a place of, of good in a good place, then the connection starts to, to happen.
So thank you, Hart, for this conversation. I think it's a good heart to heart conversation. But also I think there are needs, there's a need to have that analytical conversation and how that combines to heart because we can live on the emotion side of it alone and we can't live on the analytical side of it. But I think there's a necessity for both. And when we're able to combine those and talk about those both effectively and not all at the same time whenever needed, I personally think that is a win win.
Don't go anywhere. I believe we have another segment here and thank you so much for sticking with us. And we'll be right back with Leadership Evolving. We'll be right back with more insights,
[00:38:20] Speaker B: stories and transformative leadership conversations. Stay with us.
Leadership Today Evolving Tomorrow.
I'm Carlos Martin and this is Leadership Evolving on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the journey.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: And we are back.
[00:38:36] Speaker B: Leadership Today Evolving Tomorrow.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: All Right. Thank you so much for sticking with us. And we are back with, with Harsh.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: Harsh.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: Before I forget, where can people find you? Where can people learn more about you and your business?
[00:38:54] Speaker C: Surely. So the best place is our website. It's www.myprofitgurus.com. we have a booking link and we have lots of free information on there. So feel free to book a time. We'd love to hear from you.
[00:39:10] Speaker A: Fantastic. I love that. So anybody that's, that might be interested, interested in getting harsh services now, you know where to find them. So I want to go, I want to go a little bit more on the. Here, let me see if I can find my, my question here. I want to go a little bit more on the shame and fear. So my question for you is, so for leaders who feel shame, feel fear or confusion around their numbers, what is the first step towards rebuilding their confidence as you work with many, many clients?
[00:39:41] Speaker C: Ah, so I would say one thing I always tell business owners is this, is that your financial statements aren't judging you, they're actually trying to help you. And I've worked with incredibly successful entrepreneurs who were embarrassed to show me their books because they thought I would tell. It'll tell me everything that they were doing wrong.
Instead, I told them, this isn't a report card, it's really a roadmap. One client hadn't booked, looked at his financial statements for almost eight months because he's afraid of what he might find. Ironically, once we finally reviewed them, the problems actually weren't nearly as bad as he had imagined. Within three months, we had a plan. We had within a year of running his business, he was even stronger than when he had been before.
So that planning was absolutely crucial and effective. And it just took some time to overcome that fear of that uncertainty of what you might find. But you know, as you start to review your financials more often and your confidence grows and you grow more clarity in your business. You know, I think overall, you know, the first step isn't just learning accounting, but it's being able to use the accounting information to make great decisions. Now Carlos, for us, you know, like I deal with a lot of small and medium sized business owners and you know, for them fear is real because besides everything else, they don't have a network they can draw upon. Maybe they're like a five or six person firm and they're like the leader. Who do they even turn to? You know, and when they have real fears about making payroll or they have a big balance due for a debt, it Raises a lot of fears and concerns, you know, and they don't have a lot of places to turn, you know. So I'm curious, you know, because I know you work with all types of executives. For the small business executive, what do you usually tell them and how do you get them to, you know, sort of face their fears and become more resilient?
[00:41:50] Speaker A: I love that question. I, I think it's, it's also a loaded question because it's, and I say that because working with many individuals, working with large corporations, working with small companies as well, and I do that with purpose and on purpose because I get to learn the perspective of a small business. I get to learn more the perspective of a big, large corporation, right? Because they have different ways of seeing the world, right? Different KPIs, different approaches and so forth.
When I think about, especially with a small business, I think there is a lot of room for growth because they can make changes a lot quicker than a big corporation. It's like a big ship. To make any, any change with the big corporation, it takes a lot. So I think one of the, when I, when I talk to a small firm is that they have the ability, the flexibility and the superpower to make a change a lot quicker and more effective. And it shows up and how they, how they do business.
But to answer your question, a little bit more of like not making payroll.
To use your example, I am not a financial planner, I am not a consultant. So I'm not necessarily going to tell them what to do because for me to tell them about their business, it's probably not the most effective. You don't want me to tell you how to make your payroll. But what I do talk about is how do we have that emotional ally, how do we have that one place you use the word judgment.
We're like, you know, earlier on is like your financial are not your, you know, we're not here to, to judge you. I can't remember exactly the words right. And how you said. But it's kind of the same thing, the same concept, the way we think, you know, how do we have that, that space for us, you know, small business people to have that conversation of difficulty.
Imagine if you're the president of the small firm, you said five, six people.
And they bring it up to the stakeholders like, hey, I don't know if I'll be able to make payroll.
I don't know how effective that's going to show up. Right? Opposed to having that person talk to a coach, for example. I'll, I'll inject myself there and say, hey, Carlos, I'm not sure how I'm going to make payroll. Because I think there is a little bit of how do we let that out? Because that is heavy.
But also if we leave that and talk to our stakeholders, they might say, oh, I might be in the wrong company here. Because that fear and those doubts, it doesn't mean like we just need to let it out and have that conversation in a place where someone is not judging us, but also a place of having an emotional ally that's going to be able to hear us without a judging.
That in itself.
There's a term in Spanish, the word, it's called the saugar, meaning to undrown yourself.
So when you let go, you say like, I'm not sure how I'm gonna make payroll.
You know, they might know, but it's like it just does that fear and that doubt. But having that when you are drowning in your thoughts and in the fear, fear and the numbers, that's a lot of weight. And just talking about it and having an emotional ally that has the ability, the skill set to really listen from a, a place of no judgment, that in itself I think is extremely valuable that a lot of people may not think that there's value, but there is. What are your thoughts?
[00:45:31] Speaker C: I, I have a, you know, I have a follow up question for.
[00:45:35] Speaker A: I love this tennis match going back and forth. Marshall, you're keeping me on my toes.
[00:45:41] Speaker C: You know, my question's a little bit different though, Carlos, because I so, so some of my business owners, you know, they truly are in like some financial straits. They're having trouble, you know, staying financially viable.
How honest should they be with their employees about their financial struggles? Do you feel it's better to be upfront and let people know or do you sort of wait, play the waiting game and then when it becomes unbearable, then, you know, share the bad news? How do you usually see it going down?
[00:46:16] Speaker A: Well, yeah, that's a tricky one, right, Because I think there is room of. Okay, I'm not saying not to show all the cards, right, or you know, a lot of times or just kind of show panic when there is necessarily panic. When you're in a small business, there's a lot of uncertainty, right? So as an entrepreneur, you have high levels of dealing with uncertainty levels a lot more than an individual provider.
So I guess my concern is talking about everything that, that individual, that individual contributor may not have the ability to deal with uncertainty the way that you can as a president, as an entrepreneur. So that is one awareness to have that they may not deal with uncertainty the way. And that could create a lot of fear.
And not. But. And the other side is, you know, it could be a little unfair if you are. I'm not saying running the business into the ground, but after a while, it's like, okay, I think it's, you know, I'm having a hard time, and I'm not sure, like, those individuals may have responsibilities.
So now, as a president, you have a responsibility to talk to them and really have sincere conversations. And I think this is where a lot of people might be surprised in what they find. They might be surprised on what they hear back to be able to say, hey, Paul, I don't know if I'll be able to make payroll. I'm having a hard time, but know that I care about you, I care about the business, but also want to be transparent.
You'd be surprised about the individual and say, hey, you know what? We got your back. I got. I got some savings. I know how much you care about the business, and I know how much you care about us. Tell us more like, yeah, like, we see this money coming in or. Right. Just having that human and human conversation, you'd be surprised of how much empathy or understanding that other that person might have with you. Because sometimes we want to live in our own world and we figure, you know, out on her own.
And. And again, you might be surprised. And, you know, one of my. The African proverb that I love saying is that if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
So I think it's a combination of both. And I'm not giving you a direct answer, because I'm not a consultant, but I think there's room for both.
Right.
And again, you might be surprised on what you find in regards to your. Your employees, your stakeholders.
[00:48:48] Speaker C: I'll just give you, like, a really interesting story. You know, for one of my clients, they experienced during COVID So, you know, I mean, that was a hard time for everybody. But there was a time when, you know, this employer was, you know, really on their last legs. You know, they were a restaurant. You know, obviously people were going to restaurants at the time. They didn't have a big cash reserve, but they took a very authentic, honest approach. And they told their employees what, look, we've got about four months of cash reserves here, and then this business is not going to be viable.
We just want you to know, because we know you have families and you need to, you know, take care of Them, but we want to be honest with you so that way you can make the right decision. And not one employee left them. They stayed with them, they worked with them. They found out a way to extend that, you know, four months of cash reserves into eight months.
So it was an incredible, incredible success story. But it, it just taught me a little bit about honesty and authenticity.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. Right. And, and, and not to say that I was right. Right. But it's not about that. But it's more, you know, it's more about. You'd be surprised of how people rally, you know, especially if you are a good leader, if you're effective leader, if you have, if you, I think if you invest in your people, right, because, you know, we're talking about making, you know, kind of like in a bank, right. You make investments and then you have money to withdraw if you invest in your people and there's a need to withdraw, saying, hey, folks, I don't know if I'll be able to make payroll now. You're withdrawn from them, but now there's something for you to withdraw. If you're that leader, they may not be effective in regards to seeing your stakeholders as human beings opposed to a number.
And when you go and withdraw, there might not be there anything there. It might be those individuals to say, I'm sorry, but I gotta go. Because there's no, there was no investment by their leaders or by the owner of this restaurant. So that tells me that most likely this owner invested in them and saw them as, as friends, as family, more, something more than the numbers.
And I, I want to say, I guarantee. But most likely those people said, okay, it's all right. We're in this together to a certain degree, of course, but you could see how that, that beautiful. How that reciprocated back
[00:51:16] Speaker C: 100 very high EQ on this case, EQ and IQ.
[00:51:19] Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah, there you go.
Okay, so going IQ and EQ,
[00:51:26] Speaker C: right?
[00:51:27] Speaker A: IQ, EQ, right. So you start to see the effectiveness and the code switching of it, right? The analytical, the motion, the iq, the eq. And that is. But if we live in, like, I know very smart individuals that they're not that effective because they don't speak emotions. Right. And they're really, really smart and. But they could be the worst, you know, you know, the worst nightmares. But you can start seeing the combination of, you know, being both not only on the EQ side, but also on the eq. So as we, as we start to, to taper here in, into our call.
What, what Are some of the things that kind of stand out in our call today. Harsh.
[00:52:16] Speaker C: I loved our conversation really about, you know, how we, we maybe the leadership style makes a difference between maybe a corporate leader and a, and a small business leader. You know, the fact that, you know, analytics is not analytical. Leaders can actually use emotion to a huge advantage if they're able to learn that. And we also talked about coaching. Right, Carlos, That's a real critical piece of growth and you could really fast track, you know, your growth amazingly quickly if you're able to take on an expert to help you get there.
[00:52:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Now.
[00:52:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:52:50] Speaker A: Thank you for that. You know, you mentioned, you know, learning the same thing. When you have someone that comes from a sales environment, they might put a lot of way, a lot more way weight rather on, on the relationships, but many, but maybe not necessarily on the structure. Sales people, they're not necessarily good with structure, they're good with relationships. But there's. So there's also for something for them to learn, right? Learning the soft skills, the hard skills and the soft skills. So I don't think it's the way that I look at it. It's not necessarily, I know we're kind of picking on the analytical, you know, CFOs and the numbers, right. We're picking on them a little bit, but they have something they do really well, which is structure. Right. But if we're, if we're talking someone in the sales or marketing someone there is a lot more relationship driven, then they need to work on more of the analytical and structure and numbers. So you could see having, having both. And I think that's the beauty of it, right, that it's not a wrong, you know, or right way. It's just a different way. So now we start to talking about empathy. We're also start talking about awareness of where we are and awareness of what, you know, how do, how can we be more, more effective?
So take us out a little bit more again as, as we wrap up here.
What, what is something that you take with you that you want to work on, on yourself, if you're open to that?
[00:54:29] Speaker C: Surely. I, I think for me it's definitely being able to be much more emotionally accessible.
I think my client, I mean, my, my clients as well as my, my employees, you know, I want to be there for them much more bigger than just the business itself. I mean, I think, you know, as I've grown, I've learned, you know, relationships are really long term, way beyond your working capacity. So being able to really, you know, have friends in the business, you know, where you're working with people and, you know, learning about their personal, you know, ambitions and goals and helping them grow. Personally, that has become big for me. It's become really big for me. It's got me much more actively engaged in community, with charity and things like that. Just to extend that horizon for me to be able to provide that, you know, that, that input to others and help to others.
[00:55:17] Speaker A: Fantastic. Thank you so much for your vulnerability. Right. Because I know I kind of put you on the spot, but I like to think you're a lot closer than you might think. I, I, you know, you have the awareness of where you want to grow, and also you, you are investing in yourself, you're investing in your people, and I think that speaks volumes of who you are. That speaks volumes of your leadership and where you are.
And I know we talked a little bit offline. It's like, hey, how do we bring more of this EQ and empathy and into the small firms that you're working with? And I love that. So harsh. Thank you so much for being here. I loved our tennis match of a conversation going back and forth because it's not necessarily about one individual. Right. It's about the combination of both how we see things, and it's both. And it's something that I. That I love. So, so thank you for being here.
[00:56:10] Speaker C: Glad to be here. Thank you, Carlos.
[00:56:12] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, thanks, everyone, for being here. This was leadership evolving, and we will see you next.
